Creating Spaces

2010-03-30T06:55:00.000-07:00

This is a list of all the reports on this site. You can also see lists of the sessions not yet reported on here, and some pictures of the event here

This is what we talked about over the two days:

01 Is a Creation Centre really going to make us more creative?

02 How will the Creation Centre be curated/managed?

03 What World Class Creation Centres does London already have?

04 Any ideas/interest in a prototype 5 year creation centre in Hackney Wick?

05 What would we not have or miss if we did not have a Creation Centre?

06 How could we best use the Olympic Broadcast Media Centre after the Games as a “world class creation centre”?

07 Who will pay for it? How do we continue to work if/when funding disappears/decreases? Could a creative centre help?

08-09 build it

10 What actually is a creation centre and what makes it world class?

11 Create a space for carnival arts with in the centre

12 Why do we need a creation centre?

13 Grabbing the cultural legacy of 2012. Is a world class creation centre the best/only way to do it?

14 Who will Build it? And why?

15 Who will use it and can they afford it?

16 What is creativity? If we define it, do we lose it?

17 How can we use China resources (Space and Speed) for London Creation Centre?

Pictures

2010-03-30T06:26:00.000-07:00

The Build It session made a world class creation space out of cardboard! To see pictures of it, click here

Issues raised, but not reported on (yet)

2010-03-30T06:21:00.000-07:00

If you would like to send us your report you still can- email it to office at improbable.co.uk

Where in London might we have a creation centre?

The Sawmill, Area 10, Peckham? [visual theatre & contemporary circus]

Can London 2012 make this a reality?

Does size matter?

How can we have world class creation processes without a centre + bricks + mortar

Do we value + support what we've already got? And how?

Supposing you already had it, what world class creation would you make in it?

Let's get practical

17 How can we use China resources (Space and Speed) for London Creation Centre?

2010-03-30T05:14:00.000-07:00

Converner: Li E Chen

Participants: Billy, Rose English, William

Summary of discussion, conclusions and/or recommendations:

We discussed the possibility of using China's resources (its vast and inexpensive space and the speed at which work is done) for the creation of a London Creation Centre, which could establish a "London brand" in China.

Notes:

-To have the space with "London brand" where the centre is operated by London and showed/made works by London artists.
- if it is a collaborative creation space or sole owned creative development space, or if can be both, that open to more possibility.
-UK and China have a different view with size and speed, and if two different attitutes can be combined and created for running the creation space.
- To look into different creation centres, such as Robert Wilson's Watermill centre in US, xxx in France, xxx in China.
-Limited of space and speed: creativity should not be restrict by the size of spaces (if it is on the back of a van or a large building) or scale of the works (if it is small, solo or large scale, thousands of people) or speed of making the works (if it is fast or slow)

more notes will be updated later online.

16 What is creativity? If we define it, do we lose it?

2010-03-30T05:03:00.000-07:00

Convener: Jan

Participants: Jan, Debbie, Phelim, Marcella, Matilda

Summary of discussion, conclusions and/or recommendations:

Grow a building
• Converse with it
• Let it be warm
• Let us see the sky and the landscape
• Let us be cold
• Let people come in and out of it as they wish.

We can’t pre-empt the outcome or product of creativity.
Imposing a structure (imperialistic model) may not be the most effective model of nurturing creativity.

Are we talking about creativity as a product for an industry i.e. a piece of art?

Formal education and teaching plays its part
We operate in a culture of vocational learning, where the true meaning has been lost or forgotten.
We could embrace skills (doing), meta-skills (feeling) and foster a culture of learning how to learn.
No one fails.

The concept of creativity is currently perceived as a subject (art) in schools, rather than seeing it as a fundamental human element and will be with us in all our learning and understanding of the world.

Managing creativity
As people responsible for artists and creative work - we could look at how we manage processes/products that hold the values of Open Space.

Some questions
• Do the people or building come first?
• How do we challenge the dominant cultural models that are output & evidence-based; especially when our funding relies upon us playing that game?
• Can we together say ‘no’ to funders and challenge their perception of creativity and allow it to be organic?

15 Who will use it and can they afford it?

2010-03-30T05:01:00.000-07:00

Convener: Peter Mount

Participants: Mike, Charlotte, Alex, Margaret, Kiki

Summary of discussion, conclusions and/or recommendations:
1. Based on a broad definition of creation centre then yes, there are users.
2. Many venues/facilities operate successfully only because they run a mixed range of users – from local with limited funding through to the large, corporate, strong brought in to provide “commercial” income. The strong will prosper, and are needed to fund the weak, and can “control” the time they use, the spaces, etc.
3. The time used and investment of resource to raise funds, and make an organisation viable, can be very counterproductive for the success of users – they can’t afford the space, or for a limited time. Lot of energy from the users and space suppliers just goes on just trying to get into the space. The process of getting users for a space, and finding a space, can be/is overwhelming.
4. There is no “free” space, letting users get on full-time with creating. There is no equality of opportunity for the weak – the strong win!
5. Was the older funding model in times past different? Have things really got tougher, or has it always been tough?

Bad
Freedom to work and create…
is compressed and limited by the time and resource investment to sustain viability
= imbalance

Good
Freedom to work and create…
is promoted and expands if it is at the centre and is supported through fully accessible resources, and supported by real significant investment
= balance

Conclusion
Yes there are the users, at the right price

14 Who will Build it? And why?

2010-03-30T04:59:00.000-07:00

Convener: Clive Lyttle

Participants:
Mark Morren, Ajay Chhabra, Becky Thomson

Summary of discussion, conclusions and/or recommendations:

LOCAG – practical question of who should build it

Does an organization exists that can take the lead?

Then build it

Capital question – where does it come from?

Infrastructure

Big contenders who runs it – responsibility – needs to be instigated by an existing authority.

Who is in a position to say this will happen?

ACE

LDA – has a history of Land development

Need proof of need for such a centre

ACE does it establish need through events such as this open space.

Who will fund it

Need to be built in two years time for 2012

Responsibility of sectors

Why are people not taking responsibility?

LDA – Hackney wick building

Dragons Den – need to involve entrepreneurs or corporate bodies

Lord Sugar?

Richard Branson involved?

Top down or bottom up approach to development

Benefit of partners

Is 3 Mills the right site?

Could it be developed on other brown field site?

LDA – Purchase site

LOCAG / ODA bricks and mortar

ACE – what goes on inside ?

3 Mills thought to be an ideal site because of its isolated location i.e. surrounded by water, lee valley etc

Why?

Commitment to legacy

Public money

Animate space of Olympic park

Dress space

Barcelona out door art park/event

Use by festival

Watch out for problems that happen in millennium dome and celebrations etc

13 Grabbing the cultural legacy of 2012. Is a world class creation centre the best/only way to do it?

2010-03-30T04:50:00.000-07:00

Convener: Rachel Gibson

Participants: Rachel Gibson, Mark Mulqueen, Tony Haynes

Summary of discussion, conclusions and/or recommendations:

Headline points:

• Let’s use the outdoor spaces of the Olympic Park as a national centre for site-specific, outdoor, street arts – rather than aspire to a great big building
• Its people that make exciting things happen – not bricks and mortar.
• Invest in the artists
• Have lessons from the lottery re ambitious capital projects been learnt?

Summary of discussion:

• Anything on the 2012 site that can be handed over for artistic use is a good thing – but you can’t sustain a legacy without resourcing what is going on already.
• Should the arts be used to fill empty spaces? The arts are good at colonizing spaces - but through an organic rather than a forced process. Artists will find the spaces that are appropriate to them.
• The creation centre idea sounds like an Arts Council wheeze for getting rid of money without having to give it to artists – not to be encouraged!
• The open space discussion is really about how to make best use of the Media Centre, Three Mills building etc. once they are available after the Olympics. If the motivation is pragmatic let’s be honest about it rather than trying to invent a strategic argument. Offering these spaces to existing organizations would be more cost effective and appropriate than trying to set up something new.
• Trying to replicate a continental model here won’t work. The infrastructure and regional support networks are entirely different. Also geography means that it is financially viable to tour a large scale spectacular work after creation in a way that wouldn’t be possible in England.
• Artistic neutrality might be desirable for a creation space in terms of openness, but doesn’t always work. In Stockton it was necessary to bring in an artistic director for the space to operate effectively.
• How old-hat might a creation centre seem post 2012? If we are still in recession London might be awash with empty retail and commercial buildings which might provide more flexible/affordable/desirable spaces for artists than a creation centre.
• Have lessons from the Lottery re major capital developments really been learnt? Capital builds always cost more than expected and the most problematic ones have been those where stakeholders/funders have tried to set up something new (as would be the case with a creation centre) rather than those which enhanced the renewed or enhanced the facilities of an existing cultural organization.
• What East London lacks most is large-scale performance spaces.
• The more interesting question than the one posed in this Open Space event is “how can we grab the Olympic park for exciting creative and cultural use?” It would be more exciting (and cost effective) to grab the outdoor spaces and create a national centre for outdoor/street/site specific work – and invest in the artists and companies that make the work. This would also stimulate a more creative relationship with local communities and park users through as audiences and participants.

12 Why do we need a creation centre?

2010-03-30T04:47:00.000-07:00

Convener: Karen Poley

Participants: Jean Marie Akkerman, Anna Harding, Jon Linstrum

Summary of discussion, conclusions and/or recommendations:

Both positive and negative aspects to this issue

Positive:
• development of sector
• enabling the creation of larger scale work
• higher profile for the sector
• regeneration potential, working within areas of deprivation
• educational potential, community interaction

Negative:
• huge costs
• Do artists actually need a ‘world class’ facility when there are loads of existing spaces which are already used as creation centres – especially in the visual arts sector.
• Develop the ‘virtual’ concept of using temporary spaces and bringing in the equipment or whatever’s needed for specific projects.
• Can the sector support the creation of large-scale work? No. There’s no market or budgets. You can’t fundraise from ACE to present this work, only to commission so a few artists who’ve been encouraged to create large scale work, have been ‘burned’ – unable to get any more gigs despite their investment (Strangelings, World Famous etc).
• Many artists who have been working outdoors creating great work for years are still unable to pay themselves properly
• Outdoor arts are generally free to the public, as such they will always need to be funded. Public funding will have to be ongoing – dependence on commercial activity seems likely to push out the work it will have been created to produce in the first place.
• Focus on the creative, not the centre

11 Create a space for carnival arts with in the centre

2010-03-30T04:30:00.000-07:00

Participants: Margaret Hamilton, Marva Antoine, Clive Lyttle, Margaret Shweeiay
Lina Jungergarbo

Summary of discussion, conclusions and/or recommendations:

Centre of Excellence for the carnival art form
Including all the elements of carnival e.g.
steel pan. calypso, DJ music costume performance and performance space
• Production and construction
• Multi media and design
• Catering accommodation resource and archives, exhibition space
• Training and conference room

Opportunities
• Employment
• Business opportunities
• Training working with specialist artists
• Supporting social and cultural aspects

How would we be different?
• Practitioner lead
• Working on Major commissioning project
• Community involvement
• Create employment opportunity for the required skills sector
• Manage key events local or international
• Identify it as a business so it becomes sustainable
• Collaboration of art forms

Prove the case
• Getting support for the specialise artists to deliver their art form with capacity
• Building an elite partnership of specialise artist to achieve excellence
• London has a long history of carnival arts, from its cosmopolitan makeup to continue to develop its art form regionally and internationally
• Access the location for 300+ art organisations
• Rising the standards
• Meeting the needs of other future carnivals, festivals, large scale events and celebration events

Conclusion:
To give the specialist artists the resources to produce excellence, innovative project to create employment and enhance the visitor’s economy and increase mass participation

Recommendation:
Create space for specialise carnival artists and its art forms within a world class creation centre

10 What actually is a creation centre and what makes it world class?

2010-03-30T03:53:00.000-07:00

Convener: Debra Reay

Participants: Violaime Bailleul, Katie Roberts, Jill Skilling, Phelim McDermott, Jonathon Graham, Abigail Yeats, Robin Morley

Summary of discussion, conclusions and/or recommendations:

What is a Creation Space
• It’s a space to make work, a space that affords the time to think, develop ideas, make mistakes, make new work, to improve and revisit previous ideas, on your own and with other artists. It provides the freedom to take the necessary time and perhaps to fail somtimes.
• A place of encounter
• Notice that this is a process (not necessarily a building), in HE they call it practice led research.
• The creation process must be artist led and defined.
• Proposal - the invitation needs to be to the artist to define their own creation process – this will take a number of forms – possibly requiring the building –large space , small space, - possibly in the form of a retreat, possibly like Cape Farewell on a boat in the Arctic and other.

• Place where artists own and control their work

• London (the city) is the creation centre, with a diversity of practice and places involved in creativity. Much of what we need is already here but not necessarily adequate, affordable. Let’s make what’s here and emerging fit for purpose.

• A (single building) Creation Centre would be a mistake. The diversity of demands, needs, opportunities cannot be met in a single space. A building will always be prescriptive in some way. AND better space is needed. Building can influence the attitude to the work.

• So much of what is around is not good enough – COLD COLD COLD
Space that is warm, clean affordable please.

• We need to be pragmatic.

• The French model is not replicable here – the whole system of supporting artists and funding buildings is entirely different. The creation centre belongs to particular towns / regions. Companies take up residency and produce work for the local/regional festival.

What do we mean by world class?

• A reflection of our (British) inferiority?
• Confidence building
• Place to create product for the international market? (There is a very limited market in Britain).
• An elite place?

08-09 build it

2010-03-29T06:28:00.000-07:00

Click here to view more images!

07 Who will pay for it? How do we continue to work if/when funding disappears/decreases? Could a creative centre help?

2010-03-29T06:23:00.000-07:00

Conveners: Kat Joyce /Jane McMorrow

Participants:
Kat Joyce, Jules Tipton, Mark Mulqueen, Sanaz Amidi, Lucia Smith, Jane McMorrow

Summary of discussion, conclusions and/or recommendations:

Jane introduced her position - working on proposing a business plan for 3 Mills post-2012 which would enable the space to be used a creative centre. But there’s no cash. What are the possibilities?

Issues are: Everyone wants to use the space, but don’t have cash. Who would get paid to manage it? Where you you find investment?
Obvious answer is ACE – but are there other models?
Mixed economy?

It was raised that the curation of a space is intrinsically tied in to where the money comes from to fund it.

Idea from previous session (Julian’s) was re-discussed: 1 or 2 festivals use the space and pay for it in peak season, with other artists using it cheaply off –peak.

Issue: can Street Arts bring in revenue with no box-office?

Jane said that 2 sets of skills are necessary
- skills to manage a space
- skills to develop links with community, internationally, to find demand for work and build relationships.

There is a need and a want for this kind of centre in London.
It was raised that some kind of Artistic Director/curator is needed (as explored in a previous session)

Is there a model whereby street arts are linking to forthcoming large events eg Commonwealth Games/World Cup and funded off the back of these?

Mixed economy seems to be the way forward - but artists often don’t trust it, feeling that it will get in the way of allowing them to concentrate on making the work.

A knowledge gap was described – business sense to artistic ambition.
It can be a burden if artists have to run a building and it impacts on ability to make work.

Creating intellectual capital?

French model, funded by the Lottery: a show is created, and then toured to all of France with the rationale: here’s your winnings from the lottery (free to access art)
How do you maintain that? If the figure was large enough, would it allow endowments?

Benefit to the local community is clear but needs to be highlighted.
A discussion was had about the looming threat of arts cuts: with a proportion of the general public not seeing any value in Govt/lottery spending on the arts, how can we make a strong case for their continued funding and how?

Commercial sponsorship was discussed eg The Orange London Creative Centre.
Again, it was felt that work might be compromised in the interests of maintaining the ‘Brand’ integrity.

Similarly, with a philanthropic approach, there is a fear that only arts which please an individual philanthropist’s tastes would flourish, other more experimental/less glamourous forms would die off.

Mixed economy: Is it better not to have it and to refuse to compromise on artistic integrity, or can compromises be made?

Creation Centre has to be cool, sexy, glamourous, high-profile – using Princes Trust as an example, people will pay a fortune to be associated with this.

London financial centre is on the doorstep of proposed site for Creative centre – how can be encourage more skills exchange from financiers, business experts?

Creative centre needs to be at the centre of a Cultural Quarter – not a centre in isolation.

Creation Spaces are driven by regeneration agenda: developing areas for creative arts makes an area a better place to live – attracts other companies (and middle-class house buyers!)

Local Authority arts budgets are being sliced – ground level projects in difficult areas which really are making community differences are being cut.

A problem was identified that those in the arts see themselves as people who change society (arts change society) but society at large does not view arts the same way.

How about linking up with football organizations who are multi-million pound organizations – ie Tottenham hotspur give 1% of income to encouraging participation in sports and art (but do we want to fly team colours..?!)

Artists are vibrant, trendy and need to capitalize on how these qualities attract rich people!

Example of Rye Old School was discussed – LA handing over an old school to an arts group because it would cost less than securing an empty building. A mixed economy model was developed to run the space: artist rentals, ACE, commercial rentals.

Farnham Maltings model: sliding scale of rent for artists depending on their financial success.

There are plenty of available spaces in London, it’s just a case of working out how to finance using them:
2 models:
- grassroots, no budget, spontaneous, DIY
- all-encompassing, long-term, large scale funding.

You have to know your market v well – at Space there is 97% occupancy and v little subsidy, 600 tenants in 16 buildings, each project very carefully managed.

Talk to the banks – there are banks which will lend generously to arts orgs eg Triodos, an ethical, non profit bank only interested in ethical social enterprises.

Local authorities with cash reserves can’t give capital but can offer preferential rates of borrowing.

Venture capital would perhaps create endowments / interest free loans.

It is likely that worst case scenario is 20% cut to ACE funds in the next funding round.

It was brought up that this uncertainty with ACE means that it’s difficult to get money from banks (funds are only committed for 3 years)

We need to know more about the financial models that have worked in the charity sector, not just the arts.

Could ACE do some information-sharing?

06 How could we best use the Olympic Broadcast Media Centre after the Games as a “world class creation centre”?

2010-03-29T06:18:00.000-07:00

Conveners: Anna Harding, Chris Westwood

Participants: Lucy McMenamy

Summary of discussion, conclusions and/or recommendations:

Background:
• the 2012 Broadcast Media Centre in Hackney Wick will be de commissioned after the Games.
• It and cost allegedly £500m and is approx 1m sq feet (think, Barbican Centre or Southbank Centre in scale). It’s a great big “shed”
• It will be Hackney’s biggest legacy from the Games. It is supposed to generate 8000 jobs as “legacy”
• It’s officially designated a “creative and media centre”
• It has high speed connectivity, broadband and a load of sponsors floating around
• We know that the certain CCI growth areas - at min 4% p.a. – are in new media, digi media, gaming, animation etc
• We don’t need another dedicated A/V university now that Ravenbourne is open

The idea:
• “Eastbank” - a teenage destinational palace of dreams
• it’s about teenage creativity and the future
• it’s an alternative to shopping
• an entertainment, social, educational and business microcosm – all interlinked
• a class act centre but with Hackney street style
• visitors from all over the world coming to see it in practice

The “areas”:

• “street games”
– boarding, roller rink, bmx, scramble, bike cross, half pipes, go carts for leisure, international competitions
– specialist academy/training centre – HE/FE level – in these sports
– retail related to this inc sports fashion
– Adidas. Nike etc sponsorship

• video gaming
- playing galleries
- accredited (HE/FE) design courses – a faculty of another uni
- retail centre

• animation
- cluster of animation companies/studios
- HE level courses/degrees/research
- Work placements in the studios on site

• Film/tv production
- related to all other areas (broadcast, animation, journalism, doc, music video etc)
- loads of screens – dotted around as well as “cinemas”
- FE/HE degrees in writing, production, etc – link to other special;ist schools/unis

• Digi-design
- Web: Open access, FE courses, SMEs on site (business and for internships/apprenticeships)
- Cadcam
- Event/performances structures etc

• Fashion
- Education/training (London School of Fashion already in Hackney)
- Young designer studios/labels
- Maker workshops
- Modeling/beauty etc
- Retail
- Shows (local, regional. National, international)

• Journalism
- Web/internet publishing
- Photojournalism
- photography
- broad/narrowcasting
- offices for freelancers/SMEs
- radio and television station

• music
- production, recording studios
- performance areas (club spaces)
- independent labels, music companies SMEs in situ
- teaching?

• event management
- lighting. sound, structures, tech crew, etc academy eg BritSchool
- laser quest
- Tv style sports thingie with obstacles etc
- Production and event SMEs in offices
- Run all the international competitions, shows, conferences in house

• catering and hospitality
- a “Fifteen” for teenagers
- hydroponic allotments
- very cool bars, cafes, restaurants all over the place (franchises)

Some practicalties:

• people who might be interested: Chorion (Waheed Alli), Endemol (Peter Bazelgate), Adidas, Nike, Apple, Google, Disney
• there’s only about 2 years now to make a decision and get this in place
• Hackney residents get in free with a magic swipe card

Needs a design master plan to make it look like a teenage creation centre/village with loads of social spaces, screens, booths, amphthitheatres etc

If Westfield can do it…..

05 What would we not have or miss if we did not have a Creation Centre?

2010-03-29T06:15:00.000-07:00

Convener: Robin Morley

Participants: Chris Westwood, Ajay Chhabra, Kerry, Jonathan Graham,

Recommendations:

Would we miss a creation space? We retain the right to say “No”

Funding being sucked away from artists – if there was no a world class centre funding would not be take for creating and running the facility

Example: Alidade Craft Centre, set up over twenty years ago with 10 well funded invitations to leading world recognized craft artists and makers who set up workshops and ran master apprentice training schemes for local makers and craft artists in their specific disciplines – glass making, textiles, metal etc.
The centre set up in a glass factory by the City Mayor contributed to the skills and craft of the city and had a direct impact on the craft community and the local economy through selling work.

04 Any ideas/interest in a prototype 5 year creation centre in Hackney Wick?

2010-03-29T06:14:00.000-07:00

SPACE have a real opportunity and are looking for interested potential partners

Convener: Anna Harding (SPACE – studios)

Participants: Mark Morreau, Margaret Hamilton (Masquerade 2000), Marva Antoine (Tropical Isles), Lucy McMenemy (LB Hackney), Jill Shelley (Barbican)

Summary of discussion, conclusions and/or recommendations:

Create a family to share skills, benefit from each other
A flexible space, not fixed use
Where different groups/art forms can encounter each other
A consortium of users/Association of Specialists
Mobilise what’s already here
Home-Grown – World Class = name for centre?
Space to develop scale and ambition to be part of Olympics and legacy eg build Olympic costumes
Street art, Carnival, visual art, circus, performance, media arts
plus visitor accommodation for hosting international artists
A place to grow from small seeds to big ideas/large scale productions
Creates more opportunities to link up, make connections, for COLLABORATION
Don’t create high overheads or the artistic aim loses its way

03 What World Class Creation Centres does London already have?

2010-03-29T06:09:00.000-07:00

Convener: Rose English

Participants: Margaret Sheehy, Mark Mulqueen, Rose English, Bill gee, Lucia Smith, Jill Shellly, Kat Joyce, Violaime Bailleul and Lina Jungergard.

Summary of discussion, conclusions and/or recommendations:

What is World Class? Is it International? Are the facilities world class? Is it the funding or the expectation around the produced work?

What are the exisiting creation spaces in London? An individual artist’s home studio is often a creative centre to develop ideas, but needs actual space and infrastructural support to realise practically the ideas conceived in private space.

The National Theatre Studio allows work to happen without any expectation of what that work is!
If the expectation is that work created is world class automatically puts pressure on artists and reduces risk taking?

Is London a ‘Creation Centre’ already? One big centre with lots of little centres! Is it a network of creation centres (studios, minds, buildings)and if so is this question less about where a centre would be physically located and more about how the centres get linked together?

A future culture of greater interdisciplinarity could harness existing creative structures to realise ambitious interdisciplinary ideas.

Key difficulty is that organisations have focussed on delivering their own vision and do not have space for interdisciplinary/organisational work!

Discussion about the pressure of artists run spaces – viable for some years, but onerous in the long term. Example: Area 10 Creation Centre houses artists from many disciplines.

A list was made of existing creation spaces across artforms and scales (see below). How are they used by artists and do they interconnect?

Are empty buildings or buildings that could be used, such as Stratford Town Hall etc or all town halls possible creation spaces?

These are usually for hire – around £2,000 a day 0- so are off budget for most artists.

But the same is true of many spaces that purport to be for artists, but where is reality few artists are able to work.

Discussion about the economics of running a building and the management infrastructures to keep them open often marginalises the use of the building by artists and instead prioritises management and administration facilities.

It’s important that we look at the culture of the space not just the space being physically possible. The space has to be held so that what is latent and emergent can bear fruit as a creation centre.

There are two levels: bricks and mortar and the creative thing within it.

Rose talked about organisations lashing themselves together to weather economic storms which can result in an unwieldy megastructure that can verge on the point of collapse.

Work which is marginalised, smaller work from the existing creative institutions?

Where do people make work of some scale?

Bill said Emergency Exit Arts dedicated Carnival Space

- Vary outside London with no ?distractions
- access to buildings like Trinity Buoy Wharf works because Eric Reynolds is interested in the arts although it is a commercially-run enterprise with an Art element: interested in Bill’s work in shipping containers specifically.
- Does outside work require a volume of space that’s covered eg procession for Manchester Festival. Carnival uses dedicated volumes of space,

Logistics are important on the large scale. A great deal of energy and creativity goes into logistics. Often have to work in shitty spaces and be creative around finding spaces. Need to be able to work at height with cranes, need a space with the right temperature and the right conditions. Network is brought up again.

Is the work we make constrained by the spaces we have to use? Does our work expand to fit the space we have (eg Rio Sambadrome)

In the creation space artists learn from each other and develop ideas through one another. This network is central to the idea of a creation space.

The work we create is of the scale of the spaces we have.

On e can long for an infrastructure and seek it elsewhere – the work made can then be difficult to present in London

Animatronics: how the animatronics field developed out of a group of disparate creatives and Jim Henson factory was discussed.

Networks were discussed as ‘Creation Centres’ in themselves. – do some building already have a network?

The place needs to be a ‘home for the family of outdoor arts makers to use. It’s the spirit of the building that’s essential.

Buildings are only as good as the infrastructures and management that run the, .

There’s grave doubt about the value of buildings as solutions following the haemorrages of money that went into buildings during the Lottery heyday.

There was a discussion about the difficulty of artist-run buildings; buildings are demanding and artist time gets used up by logistics and admin.

How do we ensure that a Creative Centre is primarily for artists and creatives rather than buildings that purport to be for artists but are often empty of artists because of the raft of admin and management.

Shunt were discussed – they’ve learned a huge amount of building management experience running the Vaults which has been a huge learning curve which shouldn’t be lost. But it should have been made easier for them!

Proposed that it would be helpful to write up a list of existing networks and buildings to see what exists currently and where the gaps are. Sometimes these overlap.

This included broader types of networks: venue networks, companies/collectives, projects, festivals, academic networks, artists and their collaborators – as well as specific networks: ISAN, D+D, Arts Admin, Without Walls, Resonance FM, Young Vic Young Directors, Artist company Development centre, National Dance Network, Live Art Development Agency, Spread the Word, ACE, Stratford cultural forum, Shooting People, London Musicians Collective.

It was suggested that certain themes are developing in relation to the idea of a cultural centre:
- Space
- Skills
- Facilities
- Purpose
- People
- Contexts
- Impact/legacy

Phelim brought up the example of the Dome, starting out as a place to exhibit the best of creative work, but it got bent out of shape in the execution.
The effect of the demand of the Dome show turning Circus space from a creative institution to an educational one – plus and minuses for this change were felt.
What was the legacy of the Dome on those 150 performers – it would be really interesting in ten years to look at what happened to all the graduates of Circus Space who went into the Dome show.

Discussion of legacies - legacies are beautiful things but funding shouldn’t rely on being able to plan them before the project has even begun.

There was a discussion of the consultations about a Creative Centre over the past 10 years, encompassing Hastings, Medway, Chatham, 3 Mills, University of Kent, Thurrock (ROH) – the feeling was that despite multiple planned starts, none of these will happen because the money is not available.

Discussions were had about the political culture that supports the French system – effective and fruitful but heavily subsidised.

French system works because artists are paid to rehearse – when govt. attempted to change this, artists went on strike and festivals were cancelled, with huge consequence to related tourism industry, and govt relented.

‘Intermittente’ system – different to UK

Also in France there was a deliberate de-centrification of Creative Centres.
The UK’s National Dance agency was proposed as perhaps being an equivalent system?

Did the culture of indigenous street arts in the UK get dissipated and marginalised during the Industrial revolution?

There was a general discussion about the differences in power structures in France before we broke for lunch.

LIST OF GENERAL, NOT NECESSARILY IDEAL, CREATION CENTRES IN LONDON:

Trinity Buoy Wharf;
Artists own and home studios
ROH
NT Studios
BAC
Jacksons Lane (mulitifunctional)
Gas Works
Hackney Wick
Area 10
Cockpit Arts
Toynbee Studios
Circus Space
Lost Theatre
Space
Laban
Police St, Deptford
Guildhall
Central
Young Vic
The Roundhouse
Pinewood Studios
Royal Court
Kings Place + University of the Arts
Shunt Vaults
The Place
Siobhan Davies Studios
Soho Theatre

Limehouse Town Hall
Stratford Town Hall??
Blackheath Concert Halls + Trinity School of Music

Oval House
Southbank Centre? – Artists in residences
The Hangar
3 Mills
Dedicated Carnival Spaces
EEA

Stratford Circus
Theatre Royal Stratford East
Broadway, Barking
Husky’s
Quens Theatre, Hornchurch
Chisenhale Dance Space

People Show Studios

NETWORKS
D+D
ISAN
Arts Admin
Without Walls?
Resonance FM
Young Vic Young Directors
Artist & Company Deel (?) Centre
National Dance Network
Live Art Development Agency
Spread the Word
ACE (Arts Jobs)
Stratford Cultural Forum
Shooting People
London Musicians Collective

Venue Networks?
Companies and Collectives
Projects like Big Dance
Festivals
Academic Institutions
Artist and their collaborators
Circus Development Agency
City Circ
Circus Futures

02 How will the Creation Centre be curated/managed

2010-03-29T04:28:00.000-07:00

Convener: Julian Rudd

Participants: Clive Lyttle, Dave Reeves, Karen Poley, Debra Reay, Tanya Ashdown, Mark Morreau, Hannah and Tilly from Pleasance Theatre

Summary of discussion, conclusions and/or recommendations:

We asked the question does it need to be curated or could it be run by a “creative janitor”? The French models are curated, normally attached to a Festival in a town or city. Often they are sited in areas of deprivation and have social and community roles. There was broad agreement that we should look at European models of creation centres and funding.

There was a consensus that space would need to be curated in some way. Some in the group felt strongly that the space should be curated by a strong artistic director making the decisions; others that the role was a combination of facilitator, producer and collaborator.

Jeune Talent was suggested as a possible model to use for selecting companies to use the space.

There was a proposal to have a percentage of time allocated to new and emerging companies. There was consensus that the space should pay an active role in commissioning and developing new work.

One possible model in London is that the centre could collaborate with Outdoor Arts Festivals such as Thames and Greenwich and Docklands Festivals. Each Festival could have a period of time around their dates to programme companies into the space. This has the advantage of filling the space during the quieter summer months; most companies would want to use the space during the autumn, winter and spring as they would be touring during the summer.

There was a discussion about how much space was needed – there was an assumption that space were needed all around the UK and that the space would be totally oversubscribed.

Artists wanted the space to be accessible, warm, and flexible. Good facilities are essential – 24 hour access, large/small versatile spaces, indoor and outdoor, catering facilities, accommodation, wifi and office space would be ideal. The staff that facilitate the company’s stay should have technical knowledge of the facilities and be able to assist with problem solving and warm and welcoming. The whole atmosphere of the building and the people running it should be focussed on facilitating the creative process for the visiting company.

What artists don’t want is a space that’s too precious to use – ie polished floors that can’t have paint spattered on them with negative gatekeepers that’s overstaffed and overly bureaucratic.

There was a consensus that the centre should be light on its feet in terms of staffing and make use of an existing building if possible, rather than being a purpose built facility.

We realised that the business model of the centre would also have a major impact on curating the space. Some felt that the space would need to earn its keep by hiring the space out commercially for a portion of the year. Once the group considered the conflicts involved in this business model ie that commercial hirers could/would have priority over the companies using it not commercially most people felt that this model wouldn’t work. Having said that, theatres such as the Pleasance successfully generate income from commercial hires whilst subsidising “associate” companies; this is also an approach which could be considered.

We considered pairing the centre with a higher education institution like Central School of Speech and Drama – this could potentially unlock resources for running the space. Central regularly rents rehearsal space and looks for placements for students to gain experience – both of these functions could easily be accommodated by a creation centre. This partnership would be much more comfortable than relying on commercial hires.

01 Is a Creation Centre really going to make us more creative?

2010-03-29T03:51:00.000-07:00

Convener: Judith Knight

Participants: Margaret Hamilton, Jules Tipton, Daisy Drury, Billy Alwen, Debra Reay, Kiki Gale, Jon Linstrum, Lucy McMenemy, Keith Honor (?), Abigail Grases (?)

Summary of discussion, conclusions and/or recommendations:

JK called issue because of invitation from ACE – Sultan’s Elephant wasn’t created because of a creation space but because of long term investment in Royale de Luxe.

• What makes us more creative? : time

• real need for dance spaces in East London with right physical requirements

• All agreed different artforms have different needs. Circus for example might need green outdoor spaces as well as indoor, permanent big top?

• Space to work privately with door closed, and space to collaborate and share ideas.

• Need for creation spaces up and down the country not just one big one in London.

• Philosophy and ethos most important.

• Residencies good sometimes, for companies to get away and live and work together for a period of time, away from home.

• Access to space for local community important

• Creative quarters – hubs – not necessarily one space, but proximity of artists spaces

• Flexible models

• Creative environment, unexpectedness and random encounters

• Bristol “What If” example of companies working together over 2 weeks in one building in many different types and size of spaces, with access to directors, choreographers, designers, willing to share ideas and look at each others work, challenging for companies, not necessarily a safe space.

• Have we become institutionally obsessed?

• Stratford Circus could become a magnet, if more affordable

• What work is hampered or simply doesn’t happen because of lack of space?

• Carnival needs large spaces for creation with facilities for artists. Luton is national carnival centre.

• Money – affordability

• Curated or not – ethos of how space used most important

• Stockton space not used enough, another brilliant space in Rye but again not used enough – space needs to be in London.

• Better to spend money on investing in artists’ time and space and make better use of existing spaces? Make them more affordable.

• Use theatres which may go dark for a month in the summer, for example.

• Was the initial frame for this agenda led by post-Olympic Park buildings and Three Mills?

• Creativity comes from artists, having a space only one element. Sticky made in numerous different spaces, creativity can happen anywhere if you have time and space.

• French creation spaces, lots of different models.

• Different needs for different artistic disciplines.

• Changing space important, tiny space or one with no walls

• Quality of interaction and collaboration most important

• Is there work that hasn’t happened because of a lack of creative space?

• About sharing ideas, ethos, more than bricks and mortar

Invitation

2010-03-26T06:49:00.000-07:00

Dear Friends,

Does London need a world class creation centre?

London is a world city. We will host the 2012 Olympics and Paralympics and hope to do the same for the 2018 World Cup. However, the city does not have the space or capacity to produce large scale out door arts events. The Sultan’s Elephant, the event that wowed London in 2006, was produced in France. London has a wealth of creative talent and institutions but lacks the space, knowledge and facilities to produce work on a similar scale.

Do we need a Creation Centre? What will be made there? What artists will be based there? The models of creation centres in Europe aim to support and develop artists. They provide support and training and the intellectual and physical space to create work. They provide expert arts and technical support that allow dreams to come true. The UK has a history of producing dream makers such as Welfare State, but is a creation centre the next step? Partnerships including the support of local authorities, funders and artists are crucial in developing such spaces. Where should such a space be located and how will it connect to local communities?

In order to engage with these issues, I would like to invite you to an Open Space event over 18 and 19 March at Stratford Old Town Hall. The event will provide an opportunity for you and a range of other interested parties to discuss the question above and, where appropriate, make things happen.

Central to this Open Space event will be the use of Open Space Technology – a lively and interactive method of stimulating dialogue where you as a participant help set the agenda and deal with the areas and ideas that are most important to you. The event will be facilitated by Improbable who have pioneered the use of Open Space within the UK’s artistic community.

Scroll down to view the details of the event and how to RSVP to ensure attendance. We hope you can make it - please also forward on to colleagues and peers you think would be interested in this event.

Best wishes,

Clive Lyttle
Combined Arts and Touring
Arts Council England, London